Research notes

End of the line before the seventh generation

These are the limits of our research, where they end before the seventh generation.

Samuel Roberts (5th generation)

Samuel's father is given as Job Roberts, Farmer on his marriage certificate when he marries in 1847. There is a baptism on the IGI for 6 February 1820 at Hope, Flintshire to Job and Mary Roberts. A trip to Flint record office confirmed a baptism for Samuel but failed to find the marriage of his parents, which according to an LDS member's submission, was the dreaded "about 1817, of Hope parish". No real surprise that it wasn't there. What we did find was the following:

Feb 16th 1817, I(?)an, Son of, Job and Hannah, Roberts, Shordley, Farmer, G. Warrington - Vicar
Jun 7th 1818, Mary Daur of, Job and Mary, Roberts, Shordley, Farmer, T H Clough - Curate
Feb 6th 1820, Samuel, Son of, Job and Mary, Roberts, Shordley, Farmer, T H Clough - Curate
Nov 7th 1824, Susannah, Daur of, Job and Hannah, Roberts, Shordley, Farmer, T H Clough - Curate

It is strange to have two Job Roberts in a small hamlet such as Shordley, each with a different wife. Also a marriage on 10th October 1814 between Job Roberts (OTP) and Hannah Millington (OTP) by licence. Both by mark and witnessed by John Millington and Anne Hughes. A marriage for Job and Mary was searched for in the Hope (1804-1820), Hawarden (1810-1820) and Gresford (1810-1820) parish registers.

We cannot readily discount Job and Hannah as candidates. At his marriage in June 1847, Samuel gives his father as Job Roberts (Farmer). The 1851 censuses for both England and Wales show only one such person and he is living in Hope parish with his wife Hannah. A check for deaths of Job Roberts show none for the period between Samuel's marriage and the census date. However, this still leaves the problem of two Job Roberts, both living in Shordley. To add to our difficulties, the 1841 census for Shordley is missing!

Samuel gives his birthplace on successive censuses as:

1851 - looks to be Hawarden: has it been written, somewhat poorly, as it is spoken?
1861 - Flintshire, Wales
1871 - Hope near Chester
1881 - Flintshire, Wales
1891 - Chester

Thomas Hague and Mary Taylor (6th generation)

The parents of Mary Ann Hague who was born 19th May 1824 at Fallowfield. The 1861 census shows a family in Withington comprising of:

Mary Hague, Widow, Head, 71, born Fallowfield
John Hague, Unmarried, Son, 43, Gardener, born Fallowfield
Martha Hague, Unmarried, Daughter, 27, born Fallowfield

Interesting in that Thomas Hague was also a Gardener. Fallowfield as a birthplace also fits. Could this be the right family with the son carrying on the father's occupation?

Now that the 1851 census has come online, we can see Thomas Hague, confirming our previous thoughts:

Thomas Hague, Head, Married, 63, Gardener, Withington
Mary Hague, Wife, Married, 62, -, Withington
John Hague, Son, Unmarried, 34, Gardener, Withington
Sarah Hague, Dau, Unmarried, 21, Dressmaker, Withington
Martha Hague, Dau, Unmarried, 17, Dressmaker, Withington
Sarah Grimshaw, Visitor, 6, Scholar, Withington

A Jane Hague was a witness at Mary Ann Hague's marriage to Samuel Roberts. We have Mary Ann Hague's baptism at St. James', Didsbury and the rest, including Jane, are to be found at Manchester Cathedral.

There are only two marriages for a Thomas Hague to a Mary between 1805 and 1825 in Lancashire. The marriage on 21st May 1812 for Thomas Hague to Mary Taylor, where Thomas is described as a Gardener and Mary as a Spinster matches well. The other marriage is in 1819 and post dates the birth of John Hague in 1817. We can now confirm Mary's maiden name and try to find the parents of Thomas Hague and Mary Taylor. The censuses give Mary Taylor's birth as 1788-1790 and Thomas Hague as 1787-1788, both born at Withington. The IGI has the following:

MARY TAYLOR - 04 MAY 1788 Manchester, Lancashire, England
MARY TAYLOR - 14 SEP 1788 Cathedral, Manchester, Lancashire, England
Mary Taylor - 16 AUG 1789 Manchester, Lancashire, England
MARY TAYLOR - 08 MAR 1789 Cathedral, Manchester, Lancashire, England
MARY TAYLOR - 12 APR 1789 Cathedral, Manchester, Lancashire, England
MARY TAYLOR - 19 JUL 1789 Cathedral, Manchester, Lancashire, England
MARY TAYLOR - 16 AUG 1789 Saint James, Manchester, Lancashire, England
MARY TAYLOR - 24 SEP 1789 Manchester, Lancashire, England
MARY ANN TAYLOR - 13 DEC 1789 Cathedral, Manchester, Lancashire, England
MARY TAYLOR - 21 FEB 1790 Cathedral, Manchester, Lancashire, England
MARY TAYLOR - 28 FEB 1790 Cathedral, Manchester, Lancashire, England
MARY ANN TAYLOR - 12 SEP 1790 Cathedral, Manchester, Lancashire, England
MARY TAYLOR - 14 MAR 1790 Saint James, Didsbury, Lancashire, England

THOMAS HAGUE 21 JAN 1786 Wigan, Lancashire, England
THOMAS HAGUE 12 AUG 1787 Saint Michael, Ashton Under Lyne, Lancashire, England
THOMAS HAGUE 04 MAR 1787 Denton, Lancashire, England
Thomas HAGUE 1788 Of, Oldham, Lancashire, England
THOS HAGUE 18 MAR 1789 Hey, Lancashire, England

Going beyond those search parameters, there is a christening for Thomas Hague on 2 September 1792 to Thomas & Elizabeth at St. James', Didsbury.

Janet McIntosh (6th generation)

Born 1806-1811 in Aberdeenshire according to the 1841 census but there are no matching records. Alexander Copland married Mary Aberdein on 21 November 1849, so presumably, Janet died sometime between 1841 and 1849. Her last child, Jessie Copland was born in 1843 at St. Nicholas, Aberdeen. Combining both pieces of information, she died 1843 - 1849. Our records know her as Jessie rather than Janet.

William Shirreffs (6th generation)

The father (reputed) of Ann Shirreffs who was born illegitimate around 1838 at Old Machar, Aberdeen to Mary Henderson. Not much is known about William Shirreffs. He is described as a Coachman (deceased) on Ann's marriage certificate in 1867. The fact that Ann Shirreffs carried his name indicates his acknowledgement of paternity. A look in the Kirk sessions may be illuminating.

John Moore & Jane Wilkinson (6th generation)

Parents of Margaret Moore, born c1835 in Ireland. Both were dead by the time of Margaret's wedding to James Adamson in 1866. Family legend has it that Margaret came over from Donegal because of the potato famine. If this is true, neither she nor her parents would be in Scotland for the 1841 census.

Her date of birth is given variously as :
On her marriage - 1839
Census 1851 - 1834
Census 1861 - 1834
Census 1871 - 1845
Census 1881 - 1835
Census 1891 - 1835
On her death - 1839

Her marriage was witnessed by a George Moore. We have found him on the 1851 census where he gives an explicit county instead of just "Ireland". He was born 1822 in county Cavan. When he dies in 1881, his parents are given as Thomas Moore and Sarah Cowan. There is a marriage for Thomas Moore and Sarah Cowin on 25th Dec 1815 at Drung, Cavan, Ireland.

On her death in 1904, her son Andrew gives her parents as John Moore and Margaret Hood.

Agnes More (6th generation)

Mother of Agnes Simpson. Her husband James Simpson marries Catherine Black on 8th October 1847, so we can infer that Agnes More was dead at this time. We have found the family on the 1851 census at Aberdour, Fife along with two of what may be Agnes Simpson's siblings; Isabella, born 1842 at Leslie and David, born 1844 at Auchterderran.

Update October 2011

Thanks to another researcher, we now have definite proof of Angnes Simpson's siblings. Furthermore, thanks to the same source, we can be pretty confident that we have found the parents of Agnes More:

"Re Agnes More - On the 1861 Census for Auchterderran Parish David Simpson, son of James S/Agnes More is listed as a boarder with WilliamBaxter/Catherine More. From her death Certificate Catherine`s parents are Francis More/Isabella Thomson. They had a daughter Agnes born 23 January 1811 in Dysart who could be our Agnes assuming that David S is staying with his Aunt and her husband. Francis and Isabella also had a child buried in Leslie in June 1815. so they seem to have moved to Leslie where the Simpson`s were from."